Moons gravitational pull vs. insomnia

Post by **Chroelle** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:21

Mrgreen mentioned something about gravitational pull in another thread and that made me think of a specific situation that I have encountered.

I have trouble falling asleep, and never use less than 30 minutes to come to rest. (Unless I am intoxicated). I have sometimes been kept up all night by this insomnia. The feeling I get is an unrest in my body, and sometimes it is tougher than others. Somtimes I lay wide awake for 4 hours before I fall asleep.
I talked to a colleague after one such night, and she has the same problem. She told me to look in the newspaper the day after each insomnic night to see the moons phase. If it had been a fullmoon, then this might have been it. The night that had just gone had been a fullmoon night.
I was totally nowbelievant in this, as this specific colleague also refers to herself as a modern day good witch.
But then a very smart other colleague tested my doubts.

If the tide of the sea is decided by the moons gravitational pull, and the human body consists of a large procentage of water, would it be weird if the water in your body gets "pulled" on fullmoon nights? And would it be weird if that caused insomnia and unrest in your body?

Prideth · Post by **Prideth** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:57

I've read that the moon does have an effect on people, and some people more than others. Apparently that is where the term "lunatic" came from originally. Mental paitents who would really be out of control, more than usual, at that time of the month.

While doing night shifts in aged care homes, I noticed the residents were more likely to have touble sleeping and be a lot more restless on nights of a full moon. More of them would buzz much more often than usual, and be more demanding and attention seeking. It was also harder to settle some of the dementia sufferers at that time. I'm not sure if that was just coincidence, the effect of the moons tidal pull on the body or just the extra light a full moon puts out, but more than a few of us who worked nights noticed the same thing.

mistergreen77 · Post by **mistergreen77** » Sat May 13, 2006 8:37

A simple case of 'heads I win, tails don't count'. No-one counts the full moons where nothing happens.

Af for explanation by tidal effects: the tital effect of someone sleeping next to you would be more significant than that of the moon. Tides actually occur every 12 hours or so, so if tidal effects in the body alter behaviour then we should see this every 12 hours and not just at a full moon. The tidal effect appears in oceans because of their magnitude - any such tidal effects on our scale would be negligable. Probably more people believe in the lunar effect than in astrology, but I am afraid the evidence does not support the theory.

Zandrav Ibistenn · Post by **Zandrav Ibistenn** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 0:05

Concerning sleep an important hormone is melatonin, which is released from the pineal gland in the brain to promote sleep. Melatonin is released when the environment darkens and is inhibited by light.

The natural daycycle with varying intensities of light sets the biological clock by regulating the melatonin levels. But with artificial light the cycle can be disruptet - more easily in some persons than in others. Similarly intense moonlight may also help to disturb the melatonin cycle.

But really with all the technological phenomena of the modern world confusing the biological clock is amazing that it's still able to adapt so well.

Post by **Chroelle** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 18:43

Now that gave me someting to think about. That could have a lot to do with it.
It could also explain why you feel less rested if you forgot to turn off the light in your bedroom before falling asleep.

Zandrav Ibistenn · Post by **Zandrav Ibistenn** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:45

mistergreen77 wrote:The tidal effect appears in oceans because of their magnitude - any such tidal effects on our scale would be negligable.

I tried to calculate this force:

Let's say you weigh 75kg. The mass of the moon is 7,35*10^22kg. The shortest distance between you and the center of the moon is 386137km and when the moon is furthest away from you we add the diameter of the Earth and gets 398893km. The difference between the force of gravity between you and the moon at those distances must be all the moon can do (with its gravity) to mess with your sleep (or anything else).

By Newton's law of gravitation I find this difference to be 0,16mN.

By comparison a weight of 1kg in your hand pulls your arm down with 10N, so this force, which is maximal variation the moon can produce by its position, corresponds to 15,5mg in your hand.

So the gravitational pull is out of the question (not that I doubted that) - plus: The force wouldn't stretch our bodies like it would a body of water.

Post by **Chroelle** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:31

OH but I am not talking about stretching your body but only make miniscule movements that could cause unrest in your sleep, like when you had a large meal and your stomach seems upset, only on a smaller scale.
If I read you correctly then you are saying that it does have an effect (no matter how small it may be) and as such could be a factor in this (my interpretation the last part)?
Even though you are only weighed down by 15mg then it is something. And as such could contribute. It could mess with the flow of water in your body in small passages of your body.
Am I understanding this correctly?

Zandrav Ibistenn · Post by **Zandrav Ibistenn** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 23:17

The thing I meant about "stretching" is that the pull of gravity affects all the molecules in your body with the same force, so it cannot produce the effects you describe.

Besides water and other chemicals in the body are transported in and out of cells by means of diffusion and active transport. The influence from gravity is negligible in comparison - otherwise you'd be able to observe dramatic effects in astronauts.

mistergreen77 · Post by **mistergreen77** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:43

Yes. The effect of gravity can be ruled out - but the there may be some biological effects associated with photosensitivity and in ages where this superstition originated there could also be some cultural effects caused by pagan religions and the fact that the natural light of a full moon made it easier for people to travel by night.