Getting more members in here

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Chroelle
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Getting more members in here

Post by Chroelle »

Ok we need an idea for getting more members in here.

The greatest way of getting noticed online is by being commented on other websites...

So if you are a member of another freeware site please make a post about us, writing the full URL of the site.

If you know of a good place to drop a URL please do so in general.

And first and foremost publicity is always a good way... I once got OG mentioned in PCplayer (a gamer magazine), and plan to get CWF mentioned too. This gave some new members, and some of them stayed for a while...

If you have any other ideas for getting CWF mentioned so we can get more members and hits please let us know in here.

I am looking forward to hearing suggestions...
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Post by Pater Alf »

Maybe some members can use the URL (or a banner including the URL) as a signature in other foums they use (at least I can do it)?

I think another important thing would be to get the site on one of the first pages of "Google". I tried to find it this way, but it wasn´t possible (using the keywords "Freeware - CWF" and "Forum CWF").
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Post by Chroelle »

Yep that is kind of a puzzle, but I am pretty sure that Maz is on top of it...
Maz - LEt us know if there is anything we can do...
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Post by eMTe »

It's a puzzle for me too.

I dont know much about google engine, but record on main forum site says there was ONE google visit. Doesnt look encouragingly.

Ive heard several theories (usually from laymen) that the more links to your site the higher place on google list. Dont know if this theory is true, but it's really suspicious that i cant find CWF via google AT ALL. Does it mean that we're so low on the list that google doesnt even display the results? :?:

As for getting more members in here I'll use my old method as soon as I'll be back (repeating myself): browsing og and looking for potentially valuable newbies/oldbies and sending them personal invitations. Worked for me so far.
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Post by SGSW »

Ive heard several theories (usually from laymen) that the more links to your site the higher place on google list. Dont know if this theory is true, but it's really suspicious that i cant find CWF via google AT ALL. Does it mean that we're so low on the list that google doesnt even display the results?
That is because you din't search well- I used connect-webdesign as a key word and functioned perfectly we came on second ands also with cwf connect webdesign. With cwf webdesign we have a link from oldgames in the first 10 results
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Post by Railwaymodeler »

@eMTe, I do believe you're right. Why do you think you can google 'failure' and whitehouse.gov is the first result? Google even acknowledges this and uses this reason as an explanation.

OT: After today's events, I'm close to putting a link to CWF on my computer website. I have three new machines sitting on my KVM switch that I am inspecting, all have viruses and malware slowing them down, and all three of them, it looks like kids were downloading free games and such from unreputable sites and venues. I'd like to point people in the right direction to legal freeware that won't hurt their computer.
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Post by moshboy »

Google seems confusing at first. Having links from other pages to your page helps your google pagerank more than anything else but it can also help you get indexed faster, depending on the site linking in. Indexing each individual page on your website is a different story altogether though (and this is what you essentially want). Each page getting ranked individually means that people will not just find you by searching for site name but also names of the individual games that you have on your site.

Achieving this (to a decent degree - ie. getting each page indexed in the first few pages of google) involves two major aspects:

1. making your pages google friendly
and
2. quality content

Content is the easy one to explain - just involves making sure you have decent reviews for each of your games and possibly pictures, interviews, etc... all that sortof stuff counts for quality content and gives you an 'edge' over other less descriptive sites.

Making your pages google friendly is a lot harder to explain. In fact while I 'know' about it, I can't really describe it because I'm not a coder and it involves code (in my case php/html).

Taking Planet Freeplay as a case study: even PF has its flaws. It is extremely google friendly but lacks certain quality content since most of my reviews are short at best. Nonetheless if you search for many of the games on my site in the google search engine, much of the time you will find a result on the first few pages, depending on the game.

Anyways you are welcome to study my site as an example if you want - pay careful attention to the names of each page in the IE/Firefox address bar and also pay careful attention to the name of the result that comes up in Google, since both are clues to good indexing.

Hope this helps some.
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Post by Maz »

Okay.
Some things I know about google.
1. Google get's sites in it's index/database by using 'spiders'. Those are lil programs roaming on websites, and following links. So more we have links on popular websites (sites googlebots visit often, like OG), more we'll get spiders on our pages.

2. Once a spider comes on a page, it looks for metatags. Those are lil pieces of html code at the page headers. There's usually description of the site as well as list of keywords. Google uses those to determine if some page contains information related to user's google search.

3. Some keywords are probs better than others.. I assume google keeps track of keywords people use when searching. Then it probs gives 'higher importance' to some words than some others...

4. I can just assume that pages coded with valid html/xhtml are more popular than badly coded pages. (not sure at all)

5. Of course google also stores other things but keywords. It stores the 'title' (the text shown on top of the window) and contents of a page at some extent.

6. Then there's robots metatag. It can be used to determine what a search engine spider (bot) should do when it visits the site. It can be set to deny robots from storing information, it can limit / allow indexing, it can suggest robot to follow the links etc.

7. There's probs more which I'm not aware of.
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Post by Pitkin »

One thing I can say for sure about getting more visitors (and registered members); Wikipedia 'related link' to an existing entry. ^^

OS-tan Collections's soared in activity in the last three months, and it looks like it's only accelerating at the moment after one of the members entered the link into the 'OS-tan' entry at Wikipedia. OS-tan Collections might actually be the most vivid OS-tan community right now, but I won't place any of my scarce pennies on that statement. We're active, that's all. ^_^
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Post by moshboy »

3. Some keywords are probs better than others.. I assume google keeps track of keywords people use when searching. Then it probs gives 'higher importance' to some words than some others...

I think that is actually more to do with your metatags. For example if you make the metatag for your page 'quality freeware games' and google associates Icy Tower with that metatag then it will be a more important statement then a less relevant one. After that, the content on the page comes in to play as far as indexing goes. Some also believe google pagerank has an influence on indexing and others don't place much importance on it.

Actually from what I've heard Google places less importance on metatags than search engines such as MSN.

4. I can just assume that pages coded with valid html/xhtml are more popular than badly coded pages. (not sure at all)

6. Then there's robots metatag. It can be used to determine what a search engine spider (bot) should do when it visits the site. It can be set to deny robots from storing information, it can limit / allow indexing, it can suggest robot to follow the links etc.

From what I know about what spiders will and won't index - if certain characters are contained within the address bar for each page such as ? then it has more trouble indexing pages. As it was originally described to me 'it is like being punished by google.'

Concerning Wikipedia - it does give some traffic for external links but you just need to be careful where you post your link and with what content. I tend to only put links where I have some unique content, related to that particular topic. For example, I have no problems posting links to the interviews I conduct because I know that it is content that no-one else has posted on those various topics. However posting links to simple pages or reviews is generally frowned upon by the Wikipedia community (and usually they are either promptly or eventually deleted).
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Post by Maz »

MazzieMaz wrote:3. Some keywords are probs better than others.. I assume google keeps track of keywords people use when searching. Then it probs gives 'higher importance' to some words than some others...
moshboy wrote: I think that is actually more to do with your metatags. .
uMM.. perhaps I was a bit unclear. What I meant with keywords was metatags. Metatag 'keywords'. :).
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Post by SFault »

First of all I don't want to sound mean just serious, but you're lacking of useful content. The forum is nice, but most of the conversation goes on with secondary things, not with games. It seems that there's some gametalk at German and Danish corners, but I don't speak those languages too well, so it's useless to me.

About the actual games. The section looks half-finished and messy. I highly recommend that you fix/change the looks of that page. Also there are yet only couple of games. I believe that people will come here (first time) by searching a certain game. The more games, the more first time comers and if there is a good amount of games the comer might even bookmark or register to this site. I understand that you want only quality games and that is good, but I think that you should put out more games to get a better start. Later on the poor quality games can be removed. Can't they?

I'm not exactly sure, what are you trying to achieve with this page. Seems to me that the forum is the main thing here and it's based on the conversations between old friends from OG. For others it doesn't seem to give much. I suggest that you first think of what is your focus group and what can you give to them. Then make sure that this is brough up clearly. After that advertise this page and give pointers what can be gain from here.
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Post by Zyx »

Just a clarification for googlebots: they don't consider metatags at all (according to Google), because they're easily spoofed and not reliable at all. Also, considering Google's research, they can't afford to promote "valid" pages as they make up a very, very small minority of pages and most of the profilic sites are broken anyway, validation wise.

I agree with SFault that Google optimizing is rather short-sighted. So what if you get people here, if they don't find what they are looking for or do not understand what this place is about. Seriously, go to the start page, http://curlysworldoffreeware.com (?). Where does it state what this site is about? Even if you get people here with some fancy SEO, will they come back? Isn't this a bit backwards thinking?

I really agree with pretty much everything SFault said. What is the reason for this site, i.e. what does it want to be and what it is right now? What actions are being done to minimize that gap?

I'm more than willing to help, but right now I'm not sold on the idea. OG copy built on phpbb, where most active english forum is the bar where insiders chat? What is the value for visitor to download games from here, when they can get them in most cases from their developer's site, which will probably always rank higher on google?

I don't want to sound mean or critical, but these are essential questions for which solid answers are needed. So what I'm after is a "business case" of some sort...

If there is no clear idea or everyone do not know what it is, then there's a communication problem. If you asked me, what would be a good plan next, I'd suggest a wiki where everyone (and I mean everyone. On the frontpage: "We are planning to make the absolutely best freeware gaming oriented site and we don't really know what we would like to look like, please weigh in") could contribute their ideas, brainstorm and what not and collaborate on writing a "business" case for the site. Of course, clear leadership is needed to avoid "design by committee"-compromises.
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Post by Chroelle »

Ok. First off: No offense takes, and critisiscm taken to afterthought.

I really liked your inputs because there are lots of things that I don't see because I know already... The whole "frontpage doesn't say what page is for" actually got to me.
This should of course be altered, and will be. Not now but it will be.
As one of the former OG-crew people I also don't see that it is insidetalk, because I am on the inside of it.... This should be opened up. I would really like some input on this from non-insiders (don't wanna say outsiders). Also I have opened the crew up to people I don't really know from OG, but relate to CWF even though they are members of OG too. Take Pater Alf, and actually also Usul, who I don't remember talking to on OG, but they are Game hunters in here.

The business course is losely defined (unfortunately) thorughout the forum. Everything is open for discussion by all! And this is primarily because we want to create a site that is not for insiders only.
This also brings back teh topic of insiders and getting new members, because the way of getting away from the insider-forum is getting new members in here, and creating a NEW forum, and not an OG copy.

I would love some feedback on a new structure in the forum written in a thread about the forum. Lets not spread this one out even more.

The frontpage/gamepages are currently getting a new design made. They were never meant to look like this, only in the development stage to get some coding going, and also to see the layout and what issues it might bring up.

The intention of the frontpage news at the moment is to make new members want to join this site because it is a site in development, and hence they can get an impact on how things develop... I know that is one of the things that got me hooked on OG.

The site is currently beign built up with code, and design to become a nice-looking and feature-filled place. The idea is for members to contribute via reviews, and also games (a thing OG never really got going). Crew is there to keep the wheels moving, and not to police. We have a clear policy on this written in the crew-forum. Of course there is one, but pretty much everything is out in the open. Only passwords and such are generally discussed, and securityholes and of course.... the occasional GET TO WORK PEOPLE post.
I have written in there also that I want an open debate so that particular forum is not to be used for things that might as well be out in the open.
We also have two other member-hidden forums.
1. The development forum, where all design and code is being discussed, and we have considered making these visible but not postable to non-developers.
2. The game hunters forum, where game hunters vote on which games should be on the site and which shouldn't. The same thoughts have been discussed on that forum too.

The big plan for the site is to get as big as possible through QUALITY. This means that reviews are not as "easily" as on OG. You need more quality in your reveiw to get it accepted. However we don't plan to have as many reviews as OG does. A couple a game should do the trick.
Also we have made the site compatible for adding more languages. At the moment we have members who could translate to Finnish, Danish, Polish, German, and maybe even other languages too. Lots of different languages are represented. This could open up for a wider member-profile. He doesn't need to speak english, as we know that keeps a lot of members from joining forums. This also opens up for multi-languaged metatags/searchterms. It might not only be freeware games, but also gratis spil, frei Spielen and so on... (Sorry don't speak any more of the above languages)

The game is supposed to feature quality games only and as such I am not willing to allow hosting of "crappy" games to attract more attention, as it totally ruins our image. We have alot of games accepted already, and I am currently adding games to teh database, but unfrtunately this is a very timeconsuming task. I was hoping to get something like 40 games into the database before the weekend, but I can't really make that goal any more...
We are a bit shorthanded as several threads (and news) have suggested already and could use all the help we can get. I am glad that you took the time to write such lengthy critisicm/feedback as it made me think, and development comes from thinking.
The forum is nice, but most of the conversation goes on with secondary things, not with games. It seems that there's some gametalk at German and Danish corners, but I don't speak those languages too well, so it's useless to me.
Actually there is a whole segment devoted to gaming (offline/online/oldtime/freeware) and this is of course in need of a kickstart. As you might have seen I have started a few of the threads in there to get going on soem debates, but everyone is welcome to go make a thread in there.

Scythe and I also discussed the fact that Nostalgias (the old games subforum) is of course mostly active because of its member-games. The guess the PC-game and such. This is of course due to the fact that the member base is primarily from OG and have already discussed a lot about old games. We do hope though that when new members show up, they will go in there and post some of the things that we already discussed on OG. This might mean that we might repeat ourselves, but it also might give a new input.
The freeware games forum is mostly used at teh moment to post games and not as much discussing them. This will hopefully change too when more members arrive. Games are to be suggested in there so that gamehunters have something to validate and we get games to add.
Most games in there have been submitted for validation and also most of them have been validated (it's the damn adding to DB that is slowing us down at the moment, where I have a very active GH-squad going. This squad was actually the ones holding coding and design back for a while.
I'm more than willing to help, but right now I'm not sold on the idea.
LEt me know what you would like to help with, please. And let me know if you have any questions that might help my sales-argument.
What is the value for visitor to download games from here, when they can get them in most cases from their developer's site, which will probably always rank higher on google?
Ok, to answer this I will use an example.
GamerA is searching for quality freeware games - not a specific one, but good ones.
GamerA stumbles upon CWF's site, and has to join to download.
GamerA will join and in the future he will go to his bookmarked CWF site for freeware games (and a chat). Not searching via google, and hopefully recommending the site to others via net.
GamerB however will search for a game, and find it on CWF. Finding out that he needs to register to get the game, he decides to go looking elsewhere. GamerB would never have stayed in here anyway.
Next scenario is still on drawing board.
GamerC searches for a particular freeware game. The developer is not huge and have only made a few games. His downloadcentre is generally crowded, and by offering him to host the game and letting him mirror it to us, then GamerC will end up at CWF anyway. He will have to register, which might get him back for more later on or might not.

I have a few more ideas for this but am not sure enough on them yet to post them. I cannot defend them yet.

This was a rather lengthy post, and I plan to write a concept-document at some point, which should of course be easily accesible for new members.

More feedback please. And please shot this full of holes, so I have to think more.
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Post by Maz »

Just some notes.

We do need a developer. Preferably more than one. (developer = coder in this sentence)

ATM I am mostly responsible for the terrible outlook and horribly written engine behind it. And I did have quite a lot of plans, but as I have stated somewhere, I got a new job as SW designer, and currently I do not have time to code for CWF. I of course do not work 24/7, but at the evenings I am too tired and fed up with coding to open any editors... I hope that will change when I get used to my current work, but it wont happen in near future (it seems so...)

So just some things, and sorry in advance, I am probs saying some things that were said by Curly, but who the heck remembers all that C said?

1. I have some unfinished scripts, and lots of things I planned but had no time to implement. And unless I do not find a follower (as coder), the site will probs remain like it is for a while..

2. I did the outlook & layout of the site. And as I announced in frontpage news, that was 'pre beta' version. Planned to be changed heavily... Actually it was quite a lot like C said, just something where to output the stuff the engine produces.

3. Languages. Actually multi linguality support was not implemented. I had some ideas how to do it, but... Well... look at the point 1.

4. I think that a buggy DL page(s) is (are) better than no page(s). Especially when we desperately need new blood to do the developing. So even though getting ppl via google / wiki / whatsoever means may seem stupid, I see it as the only way atm. (Unless you happend to have skills & enthusiasm to start coding ;) )

5. Starting a new site (forum especially) is hard. It requires endless hours of work before a few starters have managed to create interesting enough topics for ppl to join the discussion. Curly had quite a good start at this at spring (IMO), but then he lost his connection for couple of months... I myself have never been good at creating interesting posts, usually people find things I think are interesting quite boring... Besides I spent most of the summer to set up the site. (Yes, it took LONG from me, I'm not expert with php, my main languages are C++, FORTRAN, and assembly). (two of the last I have not used for a while though :/ )

6. Purpose. I do not consider myself as any founder on this site. So I do not think I can define goals or purposes here. I can do some suggestions though.

7. Old OG members. It is true that majority of ppl are old OG members. Reason is not that this is meant to be OG2, but that C, I and many other (probably all of those who were founding this site, and BTW. I was not one of the) are old OG members. And those were the ones who attracted people in here. So it is quite natural they lured other ppl they knew (and of course that means mostly other OG members) to CWF. So untill we have something that attracts fresh blood to here (and I assume that our best hope will be the quality games) majority of the members will be OGers. And since we do not want to end up sitting here together alone with Curly, we do like the idea of keeping OGers as members. And since OGers like to talk to each others in a friendly, yes even insider tone of voice, we of course allow it. That way old OGers can enjoy themself here.

Of course, if I notice that athmosphere will turn to be rude towards non ogers joining in, then I will use my admin rights. But at the moment I have not noticed that. (Probs because there is no active non OGers around ? :D (YET. It is my firm belief...) ) I cannot do much (nor can Curly) if newcomers feel outsiders because theres 'mini OG community' inside the forum. Nothing but drop a friendly words for newcomers when I spot one ;) And perhaps to courage others to do so... ;) ;)

N. (I forgot where the numbering was going). If you have any ideas that could help us to
a) Get the site built
b) get new members who would wnjoy theirs stay and.. well, stay.
I am open to suggestions.

I admitt that I personally tend to broaden my ideas too wide. Which may result that we'll cover lots of things somehow, but nothing better than the most popular topics at sites concentrated on one specific thing... And that's bad in a world where ppl seek answers for quite specific questions.. (That's partially why I quitted writing the stupid linux guides / howtos, any decent nux site would probs cover that area better anyways... Of course if we had more members willing to write guides/howtos/... ... ... maybe some day :) ).

What else was on my mind... Well... I thank you for your opinions too, and I will thank you even more, if you can spread the word that this site needs a coder/coders... ;) (Unfortunately, I have noticed that ppl tend to start projects and then notice they do not have the time to finish their tasks :| [Fadedmind (say hello to him for me if you spot him) is a good example :p ] )...

Now I must quit. I must read some material concerning RTAI OSes, and other *hit I will soon need :|
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Post by moshboy »

I don't think making the pages Google friendly is short sighted at all. Everything that is done for the site goes hand in hand and there is no specific order things have to be done in.

Making the front page clear is all fine and good but you can have the best looking front page on the internet and without link exchanging or search engine indexing it will not get any visitors. In fact the front page doesn't have to state that you serve freeware games anyway - most webpages also have an 'about' page that visitors can look at see what the site is about.

My page has a game counter and a short about page, which I am still yet to expand and that is enough for most people to figure out what a site is about. I get 1,500 uniques a day give or take.

I agree the front page could use some improvement but at the moment I think anything done to improve the site, whether it be visual or not is a good thing. Maybe just make a concrete list of things that have to be done and work through them.
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Post by Zyx »

I didn't mean that making pages Google-friendly is short sighted, I meant that emphasizing it now makes little sense. Just as with games, I think Chroelle is more after quality than quantity in page hits as well?

This is just a joke, but if the front page doesn't say that "you serve freeware games", no search engine will find it. Hiding essential information in about page sounds a bit odd... why should the user work to find out where he is? Counterexample is Google's homepage, but it's intuitive. Right now you get a three column layout with lots of links with header "Connect Webdesign Forum" while you were under the impression this was a freeware gaming site... not forum or webdesign site.

Those GamerA,B and C use cases were quite good, but one question... does Gamer C need to join to use the file mirror? Hopefully not. Then again, if not, how do you force GamerA or B to register? One reason I think made OG so big was that users were force to register, so it is evil, but a good strategy to get members. No-one will register, though, if they don't know what they're gaining by doing that.

OK, next question, which I hope to hear good answers too. What sites are CWF's competitors and how is CWF going to be better than them (in its chosen focus areas)? What are the strengths and weaknesses of other competitors?

And some ideas, most of the OG posse probably have written one or two reviews there and also have gigabytes of download credits. Why not organize a drive so everyone download's their favorite freeware games form there to here and offer their reviews for use in CWF? That would be quite quick way to get more content.

Just like moshboy said in the end of above post, what's the roadmap? What features are in release 0, 1, 2, 3, ... ?

I don't see it as a problem, if things are unfinished, this is the web2.0 perpertual beta mentality anyway, but the idea and philosophy need to be clearly communicated. Not just as a paragraph in the about page, but everywhere. We have all played Command & Conquer, even if the base wasn't ready, you could still fight against NOD/GDI, but you needed the essentials, the refinery and... :wink:

I just happen to be a IT project manager during office hours, so I have some experience in planning and such, that's the reason for these questions =) I know some php+mysql+html+xml+ruby+css+tla stuff. It's a while since I've touched php, though and don't really know if I know how to make secure code =)
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Post by moshboy »

My personal opinion would actually be to steer away from OGs style, where users get download credits. All competitors let casual users (non-members) download without restraint so I think a system like this would turn a lot of people off. This system was more understandable with OG just because of the sheer amount of files that were hosted, hence it made sense to stop leeches by forcing people to participate.

As far as who are the competitors, there are quite a few and they are increasing. They include (but are not limited to):

Caiman
Gamehippo
Acid-Play
Abandonia Reloaded
Noodan
Ytanium
Freewar Zone

Those are the main competitors I can think of but there are definitely others. Each site varies in what features that they do and don't have quite widely.

Really I don't think having more features then any other site is a huge issue but it seems that establishing this site as a site that gives quality reviews to quality freeware games is the biggest thing. Abandonia Reloaded has a similar aim so maybe take a close look at what features they have. Lengthy, well written reviews are a big plus for them. The design of Abandonia Reloaded (in my opinion) is almost flawless.
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Zyx
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Post by Zyx »

There are certain risks with forced registration, so that's something that needs to really be thought out.

Of course there's no point to out-feature competition, that's not the way, it didn't work when Creative tried to beat iPod.

So, let's see what CWF can learn from their competition and what market there is for a high quality review freeware site.
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Chroelle
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Post by Chroelle »

Ok. This is a great discussion.
I am in a bit of a hurry so please remind me if I skipped something.
Moshboy are right about the competion. Those were actually the exact ones I was goin to name - minus Noodan which I didn't use.

We have had talks about a points system, but are also aware that that was the downfall of OG. We considered making a big startup credit, so that new members got 15MB or so free to download, but after that had to help the site to get more downloadcredit. As well as the pointssystem was the thing that hurt OG the most via spammers, it was also the thing that made a lot of members stay...
If people are willing to return to this site to download more then it would be great to get them to help us, because that also means they care for the site. It seems weirder to start spamming a forum, that you ahve gotten used to using. In the same discussion we thought of removing points for posts, as this is the most frequent way to get points. There should however be lots of alternatives to getting points, like submitting: games, screenshots, reviews. These things all require validation before points are given and this makes the process of acquering a game far more lengthy. Patience is not a virtue of freeware gamers in general. That is also why I would like input on how instant points could be given, without leading to spam, or other hurtful behavior.

regarding gamer A, B and C. I hadn't thought the Gamer C scenario through yet, which is also why I am onna have to owe you an answer to that one. If it is doable to not register to download from a mirror, then they would not need to. But that also means that we will need a GREAT design and a clear message to get them to stay once they see the site.

Regarding reviews from OG. Well Scythe and me are both in teh top 5 list of reviewers I think. Moshboy is also in the top, and I think quite a few others are there too. Mostly because I contacted my old review-squad from OG as some of the first people. You gotta love guys that are so passionate about a site, that they are willing to spend so many hours writing reviews for it.
I don't know how many games on OG is freeware, but there are actually a few that I would love to get a special permission to host on this site... This might be hard, but if you don't try...

You ask what will be in version 2, 3, 4 etc. Well so far we have been trying to get version 1.0 going. At the moment I will say that we are running version 0.75 maybe 0.8.
This version will have lots of features that you can read all over the forum. I will make a more concrete list, but not now. We have tried to get the site ready for as amny things as possible in the code, so that we wont have to do things twice. As such there are lots of features prepared for in code that are not implemented yet.

Versions 2 and so on will mostly be inspired by members choices of features. We will work towards them as we go and try out version 1.0.

The idea to have CWF run with the motto of "not my site - yours" is basically to make as memberoriented a page as possible. Does this mean a site with no administration - No! does this mean a site with no visual leader - No! There are three leaders above all on CWF, but we try to take the job as a guidejob, and a motivator. We are not here to judge and police, but to help and develop.
I have by the way started writing a business plan for the site, but I am doing it alone to assemble the thoughts mentioned otherwhere...
I would like some input on what chapters you feel should be in such a plan, as I have run out, and, I think, might have made the sections to big to be concrete. So please write feedback on this too.
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