Getting more members in here

Here you can ask here for help on things concerning the forums or make suggestions on how to improve things.

Moderator: Crew

User avatar
Chroelle
Admin emeritus
Posts: 9870
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:19
Location: Location, location...
Contact:

Post by Chroelle »

Just to add: These are the "chapters" I have written so far.

1. How site functions/What is the concept
2. How we will get members
3. Cooperation with other sites
4. Crew functions and squad functions
5. How are we going to become the biggest and best (or closer to that) freeware site on the internet.
6. What do we offer that others do not (or it is at least not common).
7. How is this funded?
Currently testing Life version 2.9 (With added second child)
(Beta testing in progress)

www.paed-it.dk - My blog in Danish

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
--Mark Twain
User avatar
Maz
Admin emeritus
Posts: 1938
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 21:11
Location: In the deepest ShadowS
Contact:

Post by Maz »

Zyxie Zyx. If you happend to have time and will to do some coding, that would help us quite lot... I myself am far from good php coder. What comes to security, I assume that biggest possible holes are unescaped inputs / badly configured php. (register globals on etc..). Configuration should be ok, and the site also uses phpbb's functions which handle escaping of inputs etc. That's best I can do. Anyways, even though one must not underestimate the impotance of security, we're not in IT company where paranoia is the name of the game :p (BTW. I would like to hear what company you're working for?)

Anyways, I am more than willing to accept your help, if you wish to help. Problem is that I cannot really offer a test server to you, since even though I run linux with apache, php, mysql & ssh at home, it is offline most of the time. (Besides this board does not work with php 5).

Even if you have no time/will to do actual coding, we could (well atm it is I, but I hope MrG will soon be less busy...........) definitely use your knowledge about planning/organizing/testing/etc... When we begun coding the site, none of us (except MrG perhaps) had no experience about dealing with bigger projects, nor about systematic planning (speksaus :p) etc. And that's definitely seen when one is looking at the code... I am responsible most of the code, and I have mainly done it by using the method of 'ketterä kehitys'... :rolleyes:

Okay. Now I have gained a bit more knowledge about organized projects, but well...

Anyways, please just tell me if you have will/time to help us out, and I'll open the dev forum for you, and if you're willing to do some coding, I'll tell you what I had planned/started + explain some bits of what is done atm :)
User avatar
Zyx
Pretender to the throne
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 20:48
Location: Helsinki
Contact:

Post by Zyx »

Chroelle, that looks like a good table of contents. Here are some other suggestions. Use if they seem like good ideas.
1. Who are "we" - What is the guy/team behind CWF and what are their strenghts (a bit similar to your 4.). Who is calling the shots. This is a project, it needs you to be a leader.
2. What CWF IS and what it IS NOT (aka. "scoping") (your 1. without any technical details, just the "philosophy" or the idea)
3. Schedule (what and when)
4. Communication plan (how is the progress reported back to the community, marketing)
5. Roadmap. (combines my 3. and your 5.)

Well, as a project manager, I rarely have a chance to "get my hands dirty", so to say, so it might be a good to code for a change. If phpbb provides authentication, database connections and all that basic framework stuff for free with functions, then it shouldn't be too hard. I can start by looking at phpbb dev-documentation.

Maz, my coding method of choice has usually involved one, two or a whole case of "keskiketterää"...
User avatar
Chroelle
Admin emeritus
Posts: 9870
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:19
Location: Location, location...
Contact:

Post by Chroelle »

I will let you in... You will be very welcome :D

Thanks for the ideas. I will look them over and see if I can combine them into something great.
Currently testing Life version 2.9 (With added second child)
(Beta testing in progress)

www.paed-it.dk - My blog in Danish

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
--Mark Twain
User avatar
eMTe
Cyberflaneur
Posts: 6990
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 23:08
Location: Cracow

Post by eMTe »

SFault wrote:The forum is nice, but most of the conversation goes on with secondary things, not with games.
Actually that disturbs my tranquility a bit too.

1.

If we want to make good site ABOUT GAMES newcomer must see it clearly that there is GOOD and QUALITY games section with G&Q reviews, G&Q layout, good download system and so on. Games first, forum second - this is how usually gaming site look like. That means main site must be top-notch or at least as top-notch as our team is able to make it so.

The reason that forum seems to be more important than main site atm is because ms is still in development phase. Also, because of various obstacles like temporal or longer absence of crewmembers and admins this phase lasts probably a bit longer than it should. Alas, they have real life too.

2.

My big dream is to have the flourishing place with a lot of quality games, lots of INTERESTING discussions about them, interviews with developers and as far as possible getting them here to talk about their games on forum too. In short, making great community surrounding great site and being in love in the idea of freeware (not only games) in general. This is not going to be easy of course, but at least that's some plan.

Developers will come here if:

a) theyr'e really nice people who love freeware idea generally and love to talk about it and their work everywhere
b) they'll find some time
c) they'll see possible profits of having their games in here (like links to their sites)
d) they'll be sure this is the good site and to some extent unique (whatever it means, but I hope this site will be unique, even if it will be the great and friendly community that will distinguish it from others)

One aim cant be achieved without another. People including developers wont come here if this will be another ordinary site and this will be an ordinary site if we wont do anything to make it unique. Therefore I think we must decide what new and unusual can we offer to people, because "quality before amount" is too less I think. Actually, do you know the site which praises its lack of quality?
"As you have noticed over the years, we are not angry people." (itebygur)
moshboy
Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:15
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by moshboy »

The only way I can see developers actually coming to a forum and joining is becoming a site such as The Daily Click, which actually encourages new content from developers by having a Game of the Week prize each week. Exclusive content for a site can command great respect for a site.

For example take a look at the flash game section over at Newgrounds.com - authors are proud of submitting their work at Newgrounds because Newgrounds can be a good 'platform' for them to rise and improve their abilities as a developer (users give constructive reviews/feedback). Newgrounds is, however, an extremely popular site that commands, not only great respect but great traffic. This also attracts developers to submit their work to Newgrounds before any other site.

I can't visualize a simple 'quality freeware games' site attracting game developers to come and join the forums - most are too busy and others won't do it unless there is something advantageous in it for them. Various other sites are trying to do the same thing such as Freewar Zone (which is in a relatively similar position to you guys - they are new and have only been around a little while) and Abandonia Reloaded.

If you can attract developers to construct games with your site specifically in mind - you might have a chance. However, this is no easy feat. Most sites that manage this goal are aimed at specific types of developers (for example Gamemaker sites attract Gamemaker developers, Flash sites attract flash developers, etc). General freeware sites find it somewhat harder because the audience is much more general.
User avatar
Zyx
Pretender to the throne
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 20:48
Location: Helsinki
Contact:

Post by Zyx »

I took a look at Abandonia Reloaded, man, that is one sweet layout with really consistent graphical identity (love those space invaders icons...). I love pixel graphics... smooth yet sharp... now, anyway, where was I...

eMTe, I agree with your views. The community is built over the games. The sad truth is that if the crew don't have time for this site, it won't create itself. We all have real life, but if we don't have time for this, then why bother at all?

moshboy, are there any freeware sites that are aimed at developers? What needs would developers have? Apart from mirroring, any other services they would like? (marketing&pr, "official" forums, "beta team" recruiting, ... ?)

Maz, have you visited http://www.suomipelit.com ? (and well anyone can take a look too, but the site is Finnish, about Finnish (free)ware games) Is this something we are after?
User avatar
eMTe
Cyberflaneur
Posts: 6990
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 23:08
Location: Cracow

Post by eMTe »

Zyx wrote:are there any freeware sites that are aimed at developers? What needs would developers have? Apart from mirroring, any other services they would like?
Same as ordinary people. To have place where they can talk and meet nice people from all over the world. Who also have freeware on the brain.

This is the dream of course. I know that AGS designers f.e. have their own sites, but that doesnt stand in the way of getting (some of) them here. Anyway, that's not the main goal atm...
"As you have noticed over the years, we are not angry people." (itebygur)
moshboy
Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:15
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by moshboy »

The Daily Click isn't specifically a freeware site I'm pretty sure the majority of its content is freeware which is why it came to mind.

There aren't any general freeware gaming sites that I know of that aim at attracting developers - only specific parts of the freeware community like GameMaker sites, Allegro, etc. They seem to encourage discussion amongst developers (and this generally works because developers for GameMaker are always looking for advice and help from other GameMaker developers on their projects as do other sections of the community).

Oddly enough I was reading the Wikipedia entry on Abandonia Reloaded the other day and they have the a similar goal:

During its development, the concept of AR shifted from the desire to simply showcase freeware games into the hope of bringing the mostly non-mainstream independent game development scene to a wider audience of game enthusiasts. To achieve this goal, in addition to the reviews and downloads commonly associated with game download sites, the founders of the site planned to work closely with independent game producers. This included allowing producers to create accounts on the site which they could use to promote their productions through various means (such as mailing lists, RSS feeds), as well as conducting interviews with producers.

----

Developers needs vary from developer to developer. Many developers like conversing with other developers, as stated above. I would assume that they also respect sites that reward them for their efforts (eg. Game of the Week at the Daily Click).
User avatar
Chroelle
Admin emeritus
Posts: 9870
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:19
Location: Location, location...
Contact:

Post by Chroelle »

I would like to open this one up once more. The business plan is done (version 0.9) and will be entered into the feedback forum shortly...

I would like to take this topic back on line, and ask:

What can we do to get members in here:
- How do we make an entry into wikipedia (I never used it).
- Do you know of any gamesites (any language) that could be good to link at...?
- Do you know a site that might be interested in cooperating?
Currently testing Life version 2.9 (With added second child)
(Beta testing in progress)

www.paed-it.dk - My blog in Danish

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
--Mark Twain
User avatar
Zyx
Pretender to the throne
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 20:48
Location: Helsinki
Contact:

Post by Zyx »

noticed this popping up at a list apart, a good read: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/greathost
Do you has what it takes to join the Homestarmy? The guts? The determination? The five bucks? Join today!
User avatar
Maz
Admin emeritus
Posts: 1938
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 21:11
Location: In the deepest ShadowS
Contact:

Post by Maz »

Zyx wrote: Maz, have you visited http://www.suomipelit.com ? (and well anyone can take a look too, but the site is Finnish, about Finnish (free)ware games) Is this something we are after?
Sorry Zyx. I had never noticed your post before.
Yes. I assume that's something we are going through. Of course with our own style etc. But basic features seem to be there like
games with details, search feature for games, reviews, possibility for members to write reviews, game rating (we have planned 2 possible ratings. game hunter rating and public rating based on member's opinions.)

We want also to:
provide games for multiple platforms
give links to developer's site/email
allow uploads (at some point, although all uploads must be validated -> validator interface for game hunters is needed)
link to forum where is a thread for the game.
perhaps provide extras at some point. (guides, cheats, maps, patches ...)

I personally liked the idea of 'koodiaitta', but untill we have developed our main focus (games & game related things) to high level, we should forget secondary goals...

At forums we should..
1. do update to most recent version, which is not a small task... Not at all. There's no direct update for our categories hierarchy modification ((which pretty much rewrites the forum code :rolleyes:)). So the way phpbb suggest doing the update is to set up vanilla phpbb board and install the newest CH mod... This of course leaves us without all other modifications, which should then be added one by one... Also database may not be directly compatible with all needed updates. Nor am I sure if it can even be converted to compatible smoothly...

2. Add points system + 'reputation system'. (have you seen VB board's reputation system? I like it myself, and I think something like it would be good idea for this place ;) )

3. Think of anti Ad-bot system.. (Well, enabling email verification upon registration should help at first, but I doubt it is solution in long run :/ )
User avatar
Chroelle
Admin emeritus
Posts: 9870
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:19
Location: Location, location...
Contact:

Post by Chroelle »

I just thought of something today...
In a more distant future we could maybe make polls regarding whihc games we would like to see as freeware instead of abandonware. This site could then serve as a way to put pressure on developers that have ancient copyrights to games that we all love. I am not aiming small with this site... I think this could earn us a good deal of members, and also a reputation, as well as one more niché....
Also I noticed that we moved up Googles list... Found ourselves pretty high with eternal daughter gamepage...
Currently testing Life version 2.9 (With added second child)
(Beta testing in progress)

www.paed-it.dk - My blog in Danish

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
--Mark Twain
User avatar
eMTe
Cyberflaneur
Posts: 6990
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 23:08
Location: Cracow

Post by eMTe »

"eternal daughter" freeware - 6th place. :shock:

Just tried few other gamename+freeware combinations...

Trackmania Nations - 1st page
Glace - 1st page
Battle for Wesnoth - 4th page

However gamename+download combination doesnt look so good... And people usually dont search games using first combo. If you know game's name you just write it in searchbox and dont add freeware or abandonware. But this looks ok anyway.

Nice article, Zyx. Looks like making good site is a pain for admin - fun is reserved for users...

:D
"As you have noticed over the years, we are not angry people." (itebygur)
User avatar
Chroelle
Admin emeritus
Posts: 9870
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:19
Location: Location, location...
Contact:

Post by Chroelle »

http://www.astahost.com/best-freeware-game-t4345.html

This seems like a perfect place to hit for links. Seeming that we can also answer the question in there, and simply link to this sites downloadsection...
I ran into a problem though. See if you can do it, I can't since it says I am not allowed, but my connection acted up as I registrered...

And well it seems the article Zyx linked fits pretty good at some points... :D

Btw: I also thought that the name of this site should reflect something regarding searchresults... What do we search when we search quality freeware games. (And dont say quality freeware games...)
Currently testing Life version 2.9 (With added second child)
(Beta testing in progress)

www.paed-it.dk - My blog in Danish

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
--Mark Twain
User avatar
Parvini
Tycoon
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 20:08
Location: UK
Contact:

Action before words!

Post by Parvini »

Dear all,

Following Pitkin's suggestion, I've asked the Wiki editors if they can external link us from "Freeware". See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Freew ... ware_Forum

As for the wider problem - I've generated over 5000 hits for my own website (www.parviniworld.cjb.cc) and somehow got it mentioned in the UK mag PC Gamer. But the vast majority of my hits have come from being listed and linked on the Bob Dylan website www.expectingrain.com.

To this end, I've also sent an email to the webmaster of this site:

http://www.arjan.org/index.php?Home

Which comes up almost straight away on Google when you search for "Freeware links".

We need to hit the propaganda hard now. We need action first and foremost before discussion - what harm can contacting every site we can actually do? We want more members, so let's recruit!
"The mind is its own place, and in itself/ Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n" - John Milton (Paradise Lost, Book I, lines 254-55)
User avatar
Chroelle
Admin emeritus
Posts: 9870
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:19
Location: Location, location...
Contact:

Post by Chroelle »

IT looks great. BY the way people, if you contact other freewaresites, or places in general, feel free to invite the owner, and eventual members to this site. If there is a forum, please find a suiteable place in there to mention us too, and maybe some of the games we carry, like the apprentice series, Notrium, Mono, Cedric and the revolution, Eternal Daughter, Nick Bounty Series, go look for more...
This should all lead more people to this site. You could also mention the fact that we have made a subforum (or will soon) concerning making abandonware freeware...Meaning that games that is old classics and the developer has not released as freeware (or has released as registerware) we will try to get permission to host on this site... So far we got Harld Hardtooth, and Pater Alf is working on getting info for UFO: Enemy Unknown, and I have contacted Sierra regardign Ceasar 1. All in all, you cannot help but love this site...
Currently testing Life version 2.9 (With added second child)
(Beta testing in progress)

www.paed-it.dk - My blog in Danish

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
--Mark Twain
moshboy
Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:15
Location: Australia
Contact:

Post by moshboy »

I like your enthusiam Parvini but having had some experience with Wikipedia, they only like to place external links to relatively definitive sites. My link is on their freeware games page and to be quite honest, it is lucky that it has been there as long as it has (my site is reasonably well known but hardly at Gamehippos level). There are also periods where they completely clamp down on external links and do big clean-ups.

Link exchanging is a good idea but it is best to have a presentable site before you start going for all the quality sites, since you don't want to give them any misconceptions about the quality of your site (it only takes a shitty front page to give a webmaster a bad impression). A lot of webmasters will totally ignore you.
User avatar
Railwaymodeler
Legend
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 16:06
Location: North of Hell, err, Illinois
Contact:

Post by Railwaymodeler »

Well, though I haven't been here much, I am still keeping this site in mind. What I am considering doing, is when I build a new computer for sale, to add CWF to the bookmarks (I already add my own site to it), and name it 'Quality Freeware Games'. Hopefully someone will join the site through this.
Without trains America Stops- Support Amtrak

Old trains never die. They just sit in ruin and wait until the day they are taken in by a skilled craftsman and rebuilt to their former glory.
Dizi
Legend
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 22:24

Post by Dizi »

I have to agree with moshboy about this Parvini, it seems silly to advertise this site in its current state, as it will reflect bad in the long run, its better to have the site done to maybe a 70% readyness rather than the 30-40% that it is at the moment. It isn't well presented and there are still a lot of bugs to get rid of. If people see a link to the site and come here with it as it is now then most of them will be put off at the mess. Once version 1 is compleate rather than version 0.5 (or what ever this one is called) then I would say go for it as then it will have a well structured (not perfect by any means) design and layout to it, with functions that are reliable. People look at sites based on appeance and usability, and at the moment this site and forum looks like the standard forum template that comes with this free forum, and a few games, with no presentation (sorry maz)

By all means yes we should aproche wiki and also other freeware sites, but in the current condition while things here are still very development orientated then it will only as said abover reflect badly on the site. If we burn the wiki and freeware bridges then we have no form of free advertising for the site.



EDIT: ohh and Parvini I have to say lol to your 'somehow got mentioned in PC gamer' comment, if memory serves me right it was because everyone on the pc gamer forum had a go at you for the poor design of your site, and it cause so much of a problem in your eyes you begged people to join the forum and stick up for you...and it was due to them publishing parts of the forum and this topic being a hot topic as to why it was published in the forum section of the magizine. You may thing that bad publicity is still good, but if we get bad publicity at this critical stage in the development all it will do is put a big dent in getting people to join once version one is ready to go public.
Post Reply