Online versus offline

For general freeware discussion - not single games.

Moderator: Game Hunters

Post Reply
User avatar
eMTe
Cyberflaneur
Posts: 6990
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 23:08
Location: Cracow

Online versus offline

Post by eMTe »

The EVIL NEW is coming. A few days ago browsing some site Ive found a certain game (forgive, I dont have a link and it is not important here) and discussion under it (could have been Daily Click maybe?). One of many commenting kids (comments were short and usually overtly stupid or emotional) said something like this: "It's great. But you should have released this game as browsergame, downloadables have no future and they suck." Ive been shocked, because Ive discovered that it may be true. Games turn more and more into casual clickfests with no fresh ideas, no length, no originality of any sort, made with the same tools. Looks like easiness of play replaces everything else that always accompanied gaming - installing process, meddling with settings, finding place for game on hard disk. All this ceremony that was part of the fun becomes the past. Online games are probably already more popular than offline ones, because they require less and less healthy effort to play.

Several years ago Ive read an interview with one of the prominent Polish authors and gaming popularizers who started writing for first magazines which apeared in 80-ies. He was asked what was so fascinating in computer games that people relatively old for today's standards (usually in their thirties) had been so fascinated with them. He answered quite originally. People who played old text adventures, rpgs, puzzlers or hex-based war strategies (but also platformers and arcades) were also fans of crosswords, charades, card games, chess and other boardgames, usually were keen book readers and fans of amateur sport. They liked to compete on friendly basis and liked mind challenges. At least that's how it was in Poland then, according to him.

Online games today, especially multiplayers, but not only, present different approach imo, in both aspects. They usually promote blatant hostility and play on modern kids' thoughtlessness. You dont need to install the game. You dont need to play with settings. Dont care about hard disk space. All you need to play are cursor keys and space. There are no challenges in our game. No artificial puzzles. No surprises. Go and kill your opponent. One click of the mouse and you're one level higher. Wowsers. And see how easy it is to create your own kingdom. Just 5 clicks and you're someone else. 5 clicks more and you're on your own quest. Wowsers. Welcome Junk Teen number 1,996,574, in our mindless fun world. Forget there was anything else. :Bearhug:

Virtual Reality 2.0? Maybe I should replace my hard disk with faster internet connection?
"As you have noticed over the years, we are not angry people." (itebygur)
Drasir-Vel
[insert custom title here]
Posts: 1484
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 15:28
Location: Denmark

Re: Online versus offline

Post by Drasir-Vel »

Well.. i don't have internet connection on my stationary so i don't have that to think about. :) Naturally i like the games you can store locally, better than the ones where you're dependent on a connection to a specific site to play.
User avatar
Chroelle
Admin emeritus
Posts: 9870
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:19
Location: Location, location...
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by Chroelle »

This has been on my mind a great deal in the last half a year or so, because the class I have at work is getting big enough to play videogames, and they all tend to prefer the online ones over the downloabales. But you cannot force people to prefer quality over easiness, so there is nothing you can do except keep producing and offering games that have such a high standard that it might draw some gamers, and you know there will be gamers who prefer downloables as long as CWF exists. :)
Currently testing Life version 2.9 (With added second child)
(Beta testing in progress)

www.paed-it.dk - My blog in Danish

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
--Mark Twain
User avatar
Scythe
Winner of CWF review contest!
Posts: 3165
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:59
Location: Nova

Re: Online versus offline

Post by Scythe »

I would say that this has to do with the fact that computers and gaming have become part of everyday life. In the "good old days" only nerds played computer games, now you're a damn weirdo if you don't. However, people still have vastly different expectations and needs, only now the vast majority of gamers are the non-nerdy types, who need minimum hassle and instant entertainment. Doesn't mean downloadables are dead, just that they're still the nerdy niche type games, compared to instant gratification for the masses.
User avatar
Chroelle
Admin emeritus
Posts: 9870
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:19
Location: Location, location...
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by Chroelle »

Well put!
Currently testing Life version 2.9 (With added second child)
(Beta testing in progress)

www.paed-it.dk - My blog in Danish

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
--Mark Twain
User avatar
eMTe
Cyberflaneur
Posts: 6990
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 23:08
Location: Cracow

Re: Online versus offline

Post by eMTe »

Im not that optimistic. Of course there are niches, not only in gaming, but I think masses overcrowd these "nerds" and in not so far future there'll be almost no nerds if only. You know, the problem is not that niches will be dead, the problem is that monoculture of instant fun will grow so big that nerds will shut their mouths, before theyll speak. If you create the game and hear that it is "lame", because it is offline and not online one and this opinion comes without any reasoning and there are thousands "thinking" like this kid you can get really discouraged. Not now maybe, but in 20 years? Who knows?
"As you have noticed over the years, we are not angry people." (itebygur)
User avatar
Scythe
Winner of CWF review contest!
Posts: 3165
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:59
Location: Nova

Re: Online versus offline

Post by Scythe »

eMTe wrote:nerds will shut their mouths, before theyll speak.
Well, I don't think that this is possible. :)
User avatar
Chroelle
Admin emeritus
Posts: 9870
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:19
Location: Location, location...
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by Chroelle »

The good thing is that Nerds tend to roam in flocks. :)
So support will come from other nerds surrounding your production. Casual gamers will only drop by and comment, and will then be shut down by ever-roaming nerds. So I believe (and hope) that developers will be more likely to listen to "friends" than "passer-bys".
Currently testing Life version 2.9 (With added second child)
(Beta testing in progress)

www.paed-it.dk - My blog in Danish

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
--Mark Twain
jayenkai
CWF's God of Freeware
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 18:17
Location: Bolton, England
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by jayenkai »

Ooh, I'm sorry I missed this discussion! (found whilst compiling this week's newsletter, seems handy for checking each and every topic!!)

I love downloadables, they're great.
But you just know that, if my games were in Flash, AGameAWeek would be SO much bigger than what it is right now.
The idea of folk having to "download!" my games really scares them all off.

Lately I've been doing more YouTubeyness, Most recently, this which seems to be helping somewhat. Folk are more inclined to give your game a chance, if they can SEE that it looks fun.

But, as much as I hate to say it, the original poster is 100% accurate.
If all games were browser based, they'd be played more.

And quite frankly, that sucks!!!
User avatar
eMTe
Cyberflaneur
Posts: 6990
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 23:08
Location: Cracow

Re: Online versus offline

Post by eMTe »

Downloadables have other substantial advantages over browser and mmo games. They dont rely on internet connection - even if fast and coming from reliable provider internet as data storage and processing tool is still less reliable than harddisk. Second - safety. Offline activity is always safer than online one. Third - gameplay atmosphere. Single-player offline games immerse you into gameworld more than online games where your activity is focused on interaction with other players rather than with what game offers. Fourth - offline games tend to focus on plots and original small touches while online ones are usually more repetitive. Playing game offline is more like reading a book, playing game online is more like having day out with friends, unfortunately it's fake trip and fake friends.

Browser games are especially irritating for me since majority of them cant be played in full window mode, so game window is surrounded by links and colourful banners which rarely have anything to do with game itself. What irritates me even more is that you can so easily switch to another game. You check the game, play it for 2 minutes and decide that it is boring, one click and you check next "game" from site's database, usually similarly boring. Free interactive cable tv. This overabundance of quick, easily forgettable fun was one of the main reason why I stopped watching tv several years ago, now Im having deja vu.

I wonder if we'll maybe open another site in future, called CWF-online :mrgreen: collecting only quality browser and mmo games. Someday in 2038 for example. ;)
"As you have noticed over the years, we are not angry people." (itebygur)
jayenkai
CWF's God of Freeware
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 18:17
Location: Bolton, England
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by jayenkai »

Oh, absolutely. There's thousands of things better with Downloads, than silly browser 10-minute jobbies.
But getting folk to learn that is a very difficult job.
If they can't click and play RIGHT NOW, they probably won't bother. It's a sad state. But it's one that I, particularly, am all too aware of.
186 games in my big archive, and hardly any comments on any of them. If folk could click and play, what are the bets those comments would increase, too! Every week I'm releasing new games, and getting little feedback from supposed "popular" sites. It's the little nooks and crannys of the internet, like here, where people actually can be bothered to download games, that you get the most feedback.
How horribly depressing!!

Now, if you could have the exact same downloadable game playable in the browser.. That would be something! But MS screwed all that up a long long time ago, and if I dared to allow it, some moron would find a way to shove a virus onto someone's PC because of it...

Some day....
... Some day!
User avatar
Pater Alf
The Steel Spine of GameHunters
Posts: 7649
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 23:09

Re: Online versus offline

Post by Pater Alf »

jayenkai wrote:Oh, absolutely. There's thousands of things better with Downloads, than silly browser 10-minute jobbies.
But getting folk to learn that is a very difficult job.
I think that's the same problem everywhere. Quality is always bad if you want to be successful. Just look at movies, music literature. There's so much great or even brilliant stuff outside and what is being sold? Crappy feelgood popcorn stuff for which you don't have to use your brain, that most times follow the same scheme and that certainly won't "hurt" you.
If there is anything unique, thought-provoking or if anything takes more than 5 minutes to get into it most consumers run away screaming.
Very sad, but I don't think people will change very soon... :Wallbang:
[quote="eMTe"]I dont think trying to pass the screen in computer game once per 500 tries makes you a geek. Rather a dangerous psychopath.[/quote]
jayenkai
CWF's God of Freeware
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 18:17
Location: Bolton, England
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by jayenkai »

Going to resurrect this discussion a little, as I'm "there" again..

A guy from my forum has been building a new online language.
PlayMyCode.com is the fruits of his labour, and ... well.. I just gotta give the guy a clap. He's actually managed to pull it off!

Here's Spike Dislike
If you've played my Advent thing, yet, you'll recognise this game.
I managed to recreate the game in PlayMyCode yesterday.
It took about 4 hours, give or take, including the time that I used to actually learn the language, and figure out how to get things going.
To be fair, that's a pretty decent amount of time!!

I'm in two minds, again.
Do I carry on with Downloads, or do I build the online stuff?

Any chance of a pros/cons list that's suitably biased enough to keep me doing downloads? ;)
User avatar
Zyx
Pretender to the throne
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 20:48
Location: Helsinki
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by Zyx »

jayenkai wrote:A guy from my forum has been building a new online language. It took about 4 hours, give or take, including the time that I used to actually learn the language, and figure out how to get things going. To be fair, that's a pretty decent amount of time!!
That's the beauty of Ruby, I guess, it's really programmer-friendly. Too bad there's no modern, updated "offline" game SDK for it, though (like PyGame for Python, or Löve for Lua). I have to say that parsing Ruby into Javascript to run a game in a browser sounds deliciously insane.
Any chance of a pros/cons list that's suitably biased enough to keep me doing downloads? ;)
If you're looking for a biased opinion, you have come to the right place.
Do you has what it takes to join the Homestarmy? The guts? The determination? The five bucks? Join today!
User avatar
Chroelle
Admin emeritus
Posts: 9870
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:19
Location: Location, location...
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by Chroelle »

Well - what online game have you ever played that you returned to numerous times to see if you got better?
- Saving is a no go in online games.
- When you download a game you remember it much better as online games are part of the over-stimulating experience that internetbrowsing is.
- Downloadable games are found in a smaller amount of sites that distributes them and gives a better feeling of what is good and what is not, while online games are found on so many sites, covered with them in a way that you wont know what hit you - good stuff or crap.
- Online game-sites celebrates the shallow anonymous experience and not the deep-diving personal experience.
- Downloadable games made CWF a possibility!!!

Do you want more?

Oh...pros...
You can always play an online (crap) game wherever you go - as it is online and not on your computer - that is if you are one of those kind of people... :roll:
Currently testing Life version 2.9 (With added second child)
(Beta testing in progress)

www.paed-it.dk - My blog in Danish

Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
--Mark Twain
jayenkai
CWF's God of Freeware
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 18:17
Location: Bolton, England
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by jayenkai »

That's pretty persuasive!
I'll probably do the odd game in this new language, then, and stick to downloads as the "More Content, Same Price", wherever applicable.

Thanks for the advice, everyone ;)
User avatar
eMTe
Cyberflaneur
Posts: 6990
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 23:08
Location: Cracow

Re: Online versus offline

Post by eMTe »

That would be a bit oversimplistic, but you can say that online games are for extroverts and offline ones are for introverts...

Try making games for both targets, jay!
"As you have noticed over the years, we are not angry people." (itebygur)
User avatar
StudioFortress
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 16:52
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by StudioFortress »

Chroelle wrote:Well - what online game have you ever played that you returned to numerous times to see if you got better?
- Saving is a no go in online games.
PlayMyCode supports saving for online games. Although obviously you need to be online when it saves.
[url=http://www.StudioFortress.com]StudioFortress.com[/url] - OpenGL games in your browser, [url=http://www.StudioFortress.com/blog]Blog.[/url]
jayenkai
CWF's God of Freeware
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 18:17
Location: Bolton, England
Contact:

Re: Online versus offline

Post by jayenkai »

Oi!! Don't you go unbiasing CWF!!!! ;)
Drasir-Vel
[insert custom title here]
Posts: 1484
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 15:28
Location: Denmark

Re: Online versus offline

Post by Drasir-Vel »

Well if you know a bit html you can still play flash games offline by downloading the swf files and including it in the code of a html file, unless of course the flash game is protected from that by having an awareness of from where it's executed. The game should also be made so it stores savedata on the local computer cache, instead of on a server.
Post Reply