Cheating in games

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Is it ok to cheat in a game

Yes
8
42%
No
11
58%
 
Total votes: 19

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FogToo
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Post by FogToo » Wed Apr 05, 2006 14:33

Isn't a game about having fun ?..
If you like to cheat, an you feel that is how you get the most fun out of a game, then that is what you are supposed to do.. If you don't like to cheat then don't cheat, but don't say that others may not cheat, it is about having fun, not for you, but those who play. We have different oppinions, not one of them is more correct than any other.
Furthermore I find there is a great difference between cheating for some money in Warcraft for instance than cheating by reading a walkthrough for an adventure game..
Since a map in Warcraft can be played several times, and you don't always know where your opponent is.
But if you have read the walkthrough, you can't go back and do it again, since you properbly won't forget how to get past an obstacle in the game. I have yet to experience an adventure game, where it is possible to play the game, where your actions will reflect the game.
Still cheating in any multiplayer game, where you get a benefit that your opponent does not have is still a no no!
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Post by Chroelle » Wed Apr 05, 2006 18:26

I can see the logic in all points here, and actually pondered a bit over your argument Parvini:
it destroys the experience because suddenly you're not the King of Denmark, you're just you sitting infront of a PC tinkering with a program!
I can actually remembera having this feeling more than once after cheating, but I still have to hold on to the fact that it is me who decides, and therefor I will cheat if I am caught in a game for months, since I know the only solution other than cheating is me uninstalling the game if it bothers me enough. After cheating once, comes the hard task of not cheating again. Read my comment on walkthroughs higher up this thread...
On Sims I find it funny to play two parallelgames. I have two families. One where I cheat and buy what I want, getting my grades, or points up while not going to work (but I have written the families story as a rich family who inherited quite a bit, for the sake of the entire sims-town saga).
The other family I play fair and square, to be the working class blue-collar family who is going to take on the other family at some point. This actually enhanced my gameplay experience, but also added a new angle to the game. There would be no reason to start cheating all at once in the sims for me, as it is next to impossible getting stuck or failing in this game. The added feature of life/death though raises the risks of not getting the things done that you wanted in your lifetime (but you can turns this off).
I don't know if that explained some of my thoughts behind cheating...
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Post by mistergreen77 » Thu Apr 20, 2006 15:26

Back in the days of dos I figured out how to cheat by modifying save game files using a hex editor. There was a bit of technique involved because often values were stored in more than one location. Sometimes there was as much work figuring out how to cheat as there was playing the game. But if you buy the game and just download a cheat - what fun is there in that?

What is worst though, is cheating in multiplayer games. I agree with FogToo that if you get kicks out of cheating in a single player game, good for you. But when people cheat on multiplayer games it takes the fun away for everyone else.
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Post by Pager » Wed May 03, 2006 21:28

I don't know if this is something that can be easily defined as yes or no. I admit finishing a game without using cheat codes or walkthroughs is far more honourable than cheating your way through.

I wouldn't consider walkthroughs to be cheating, if you're using them to get through a point in the game that has driven you absolutely insane. But following the walkthrough completely through is pretty lame, I can't even fathom where the enjoyment would come into play at that point. But there are some people out there who still get a kick out of it.
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Post by OSH » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:32

I don't cheat NOW. In the past I've cheated but I've reached a cocnlusion, that spoils the games. For example, when I've played first time UFO ENEMY UNKNOWN on Amiga was the game very hard for me. I've played very often with the SAVE/RESTORE technique but finally I've resigned. What is the purpose of game if I know that I win? Therefore I've resigned. The game is more exciting, when I know, that I must take care for my soldiers:) And I like challenges.
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Post by Scythe » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:21

I think I mostly cheat in games that I don't really like, so I can just get to the ending, get it over with and move on to something new. :) These days where I'm mostly playing console RPGs, I don't even know if there are any cheats, and since I don't exactly need any, I'll never know.

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Post by SFault » Wed Feb 11, 2009 17:51

(I didn't really read this thread.) In short: some games are just too damn hard to beat without cheating and some games are quite fun with cheats. The idea of gaming is to have fun. Beating the challenge is part of the fun, but if it's impossible, then it's not fun at all.

In many adventure games I can get stuck for weeks jus because my pixel hunting skills are not good enough. At that point I need to consult someone (=internet) to find the thing that I didn't find. Some old platformers gave only few extra lives and doing the same levels again and again can be rather frustrating. It can be a big spoiler if you cheat too much. Eg. reading a walkthrough in whole.

If I have played some game through once or perhaps even several times, I can get new dimension with cheat codes. A good example was with some football game (=soccer game) where you could play without referee. It was pretty fun (for couple of young guys) to keep the ball at the corner with one player and use the other player to brutally tackle any opponent that tried to catch that ball. After a while almost all of the opposing players were limping. (Yeah, I know. I'm a sick bastard, when it comes to computer games.) Doing something in game that is not supposed, but possible is usually entertaining for at least at the first time.

BTW: Does someone consider it cheating if one is taking advantage of poor AI or bugs? I mean, there are some sport games, where you can score each time you take a shot from certain position and in some strategy games the computer player just doesn't understand to avoid some tactics. These kind of things really spoil the game too.

How about active saving? I played a few weeks ago game called Targhan. There was a spot where I didn't know what to do against a dragon and I always got killed there. The nearest saving point was far away and I had to kill bunch of opponents to get there (with awful fighting system*). Finally I got so frustrated that I killed one opponent at the time, went back to the saving point, saved the game, then returned and killed the next guy. Repeated that until I reached the dragon (and found out, that I didn't have a chance against it). I know I 'should' have just killed those guys again and again, but it was so annoying and at the end pointless. So what do you think? Is this kind of behaviour ok? I mean it's not too hard to get perfect score if you repeat every part until it's a total success.

*Just stand at one place, strike to the air and wait until opponent walks to your sword. If you try to rush against him, he'll just stabs you dead while you're unable to do anything.
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Post by Drasir-Vel » Wed Feb 11, 2009 19:06

I don't think you can generalize in if cheating in games are OK (yes or no). Before making the decision, several variables should have been defined, like; what is cheating. There can be a huge grayzone there. And secondly; how much entertainment would you actually get, or loose when cheating. And thirdly; how much do you actually care? There shouldn't be made rules, about it, when it doesn't involve more than yourself.

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Post by Chroelle » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:12

Well I think you can generalize if you put all of the above into a cathegory named: Actively doing things to easily play the game in a way it was not meant to be played.
Then I think we can generalize, but you are right that it is a harsh boundary.
SFault - I think you are thinking about Fifa 1999 and 2000 where you could put the ball in everytime if you placed the marker on the backend of the goalline. Either it went in, or some poor defender would catch the ball and place it in his own goal by accident. This was also the game where you could turn of the referee and kick everyone down - Yes, we were all teenagers once. We didn't go the corner though, one of us just ran with the ball, while the other one crippled players around him. Gametime set to 45 minutes of course for maximum pleasure.

Using active saving is a somewhat gray area, as it uses a feature offered in the game for you ease, and this is what you are doing with it. So wether this is cheating or just making it less exciting I am not sure. I know I do it too, if I stumble on a hard place with this option.

Walkthroughs, I think, are the bigget danger to your gameplay, as you will always remember that it is there to use, so it wont take you as long to confide in it as it did the first time around with a specific game. Cheats, you decide to use in a game, and after that the game is "contaminated" by the cheat so you mgiht as well cheat again! So the initial decision is to alter the game to your preference and thus contaminating it. A walkthrough might only help you get on once, and then it is up to you to put it away and never look at it again. That is how I see my cheating. If I cheat I cheat on purpose!
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Post by Zyx » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:38

I think the saddest cheat of them all is one in Microsoft Windows' Solitaire. You can browse the deck by Ctrl+Alt+Shift -clicking it.

Yes. I know it, because... I've done it. There, I said it, I've cheated at solitaire.
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Post by Scythe » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:19

We are obviously just offering opinions. Some people do have the opinion that making any game easier to play (including selecting an "easy" difficulty) is a crime and the people doing it should not be allowed to play games. (We can probably agree that's extreme, but I've heard this one before.) Shame, because I tend to play most games on easy, so I can get on to the next one. ;)

Of course in the "old" days of arcade gaming on the C64, only sublime nerds with no life would be able to complete most games without using a cheat. Those were "feed more quarters" times, and most games were designed along those lines, even outside the arcades. It was just the way people approached game design.

As for saving it also happens to be a great boon in these "not always so stable" times. Using it to see various outcomes in RPGs fx could be construed as cheating, as you could play the game again if you wanted to see different outcomes. Interestingly I read that the up and coming Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic online game will be constructed along the lines of good old Bioware RPGs, except that now your decisions obviously stick. You can't go back and undo something to see what would have happened. I'm excited. :D

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Post by Pater Alf » Thu Feb 12, 2009 16:48

Hmm, active saving is an interesting topic. I think it could be regarded as cheating and in a certain way it can take away much of the fun. When I first played "Decker" (and I didn't like the game that much back then) I saved a lot when I was in the matrix. This way it is impossible to fail. But after a while it got boring. Then I realized that the game is much more exciting without saving at all (except at the end of a session of course). Now it is one of my favourite games (I always play it at nightshifts) and I'm pretty sure that one of the reasons I didn't like it at the beginning is the fact that I "cheated".

But I agree that it's up to yourself to decide what is cheating at all and what takes away the fun and what should be allowed. There's just one thing that should be an absolute no-go: Cheating in online games as it takes away the fun for everyone else!

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Post by Chroelle » Fri Feb 13, 2009 14:35

Agreed!

But how about RPG stat-hunting - is that cheating. If I run all over the map twice to fight every living thing to upgrade my warrior to some insane level so I will be able to easily crush any later opponents - is that unintended gameplay (to say another word for what I wrote myself earlier in another post).
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Post by Pater Alf » Fri Feb 13, 2009 15:54

In my eyes that's not cheating at all. Your character is supposed to get better stats because of winning fights. It's up to you how much you level up before going on with the story (at least it is in most RPGs, even if I remember that there were time limits for certain quests in some parts of the Wizardry series for example). But in most cases it will get boring to fight weak opponents over and over again. And it won't make much sense either as you normally don't get much experience that way.

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Post by Pager » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:15

Agreed.
In the "real" world, you wouldn't send an inexperienced solider to fight an army alone.

If you're willing to sit through the 20 some odd hours it takes to build your character to a crazy level, then you deserve to easily blast through the final levels.

Now entering a code to give your character unlimited funds so they can buy whatever they want whenever they want, like in Fallout 2, that's cheating.
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Post by Railwaymodeler » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:11

Normally I do not cheat in games, as there is no sense of accomplishment in that. However, COMMA, in open-ended games like SimCity, I do occasionally cheat, when the goal isn't to play the game is it usually is. Once in a while I will recreate cities I have lived in or been to, and that takes a lot of cash to do, so then I will cheat just to make it work.

Check out this link:

http://www.constructiongames.de/sc3k/

I uploaded three of these a long time ago for SimCity3000 Unlimited. Everythng except megalopolis is mine.
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Re: Cheating in games

Post by Master_X » Wed Apr 25, 2012 20:32

FogToo wrote:Multiplayer games is a strict NO CHEATING what so ever.. It can be so harmless. Perhaps, but it gives an unfair advantage in some way.. If it didn't why bother use it ? ;)
offline gaming, I can't see any problem in cheating. It is you who play. Do what you find the most amusing :)
I never cheat in a game, I have yet to defeat :) with one exception.. Last mission in Warcraft TFT.. I have never been able to defeat that mission :| But I wanted to view the aftermath movie :)
Time for you to learn a new word. Cheating in a game is using a deliberately put code in the game to make it easier to test (I think) multiplayer games don't have these. There is another word for "cheating" in multiplayer: hacking. Which is completely different from cheating. I could inform you more if you want.
About the topic. It is OK cheating in a game the other question is: Would you be happy if you did? Would it ruin the fun of it? Me and my poor english I can make a difference between these

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Re: Cheating in games

Post by Chroelle » Wed Apr 25, 2012 22:02

As some of you may have read, I have been playing a MMPOSG (OR whtever abbreviation) and it just came out that a huge part of the community leaders have been ...lets say hacking... the game by using a function that allowed them to double their troops in the game. A game that is all about building troops as fast as possible and getting points by creating them and attacking (and winning) over others troops. Some people have bought troops which is more or less how the devs make their money so that is ok - but weirdly frowned upon by other non-paying players... I was never against people uing money on the game, but I would say that hacking in this case is cheating. PErhaps not classic IDSPISPOPD cheating (for those of you who remember Doom), but I would still call someone who used it a cheater.
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Re: Cheating in games

Post by Scythe » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:08

Master_X wrote:Time for you to learn a new word. Cheating in a game is using a deliberately put code in the game to make it easier to test (I think) multiplayer games don't have these. There is another word for "cheating" in multiplayer: hacking. Which is completely different from cheating. I could inform you more if you want.
I think that's a limited definition of "cheating" you've got there.

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Re: Cheating in games

Post by Zyx » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:03

Scythe wrote:I think that's a limited definition of "cheating" you've got there.
Yeah, I think a more generally accepted definition is that hacking is a type of cheating, or a way to cheat.
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