Cheating in games

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Is it ok to cheat in a game

Yes
8
42%
No
11
58%
 
Total votes: 19

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Dizi
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Cheating in games

Post by Dizi » Sat Mar 25, 2006 13:09

This is a topic that is being talked about in the INTERNATIONAL BAR
of the polish corner, so I thought I would make it a topic.

Do you cheat on games? how often do you if you do? if you don't why don't you? Is it right to use a walkthrough if you are stuck on a game? and what do you class as cheating in a game?
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Post by Chillum » Sat Mar 25, 2006 13:18

Well I do use cheatcodes alot! I dont think it spoils the fun, cause if it do, why use them? :roll: And I think its ok to use walkthroughs too if you are stuck.. but the problem with them is, that if they are lying beside you when you are playing the game, it's MUCH easier to "give up" and look at the papers.. :roll: I have it that way...
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Post by Parvini » Sat Mar 25, 2006 13:38

I have strong veiws on this particular topic - I think that cheating is absolutely deplorable and totally defeats the object and challenge of a game.

Let me make it clear though, that 'I don't consider certain things cheating - saving, save points and codes that get you to a certain place in a game (as used on the NES Megaman games) are NOT cheating. I personally saved/ reloaded like a madman when I was playing through the Baldur's Gate games - but this is part of the game.

However - there is a context where saving/ reloading IS cheating - like in Football Manager... it is cheating to keep reloading until you get the result you want. And this defeats the object of the game.


I wouldn't advocate cheating in any sport so I don't see why computer games whould be any different.

For me, things like game genie codes or the cheat codes developers put into games (usually for testing purposes)... actually break the illusion of a game's reality and force you to see the game in terms of its construction rather than losing yourself in its world. It destroys the suspension of disbelief.

At other times, it makes a game totally aimless - the unlimited money one in Sim City for example reduces that game to little more than a session of glorified Lego!

A big fat NO here and I urge my fellow gamers to vote the same way.
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Post by Chroelle » Sat Mar 25, 2006 17:56

Actually I can't help but to cheat if I am TOTALLY stuck in a game. I almost always need a walkthrough when I play games like the Monkey Island series. But I am blessed with a messy desk, so they usually disappear after a few minutes... :lol:

When I play a game through for teh second time I sometimes use Cheats just to enhance the game, and make it slightly different.
In Sim City I used the cheats after making 5 cities in a row that went bankrupt, and I couldn't quite solve the problem without undermining myself totally.
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Post by Chillum » Sat Mar 25, 2006 20:50

I have been playing Diablo 2 LOD online for many years, and ever since I started I have used a program called Map Hack.. Its simply a program that gives you the full map.. Battle.net considers that cheating, but I don't.. I think it's a very soft kind of cheating, and I think that it spoils the fun NOT using maphack, and I am sure that most D2 players will agree with me!
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Post by Dizi » Sat Mar 25, 2006 22:27

I like to cheat on RPG's as I hate random battles when all you do is run around waiting for a random battle to get a level up. I find that a big waste of time, and only play RPG's because I like story based games.

As for walkthroughs I don't like using them as I love playing adventure games sometimes getting stuck is part of the enjoyment. Once you slove the problem it feels so much better knowing that I did it myself. Plus I know that if I start using a walkthrough then I'll know its there and keep using it.
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Post by Parvini » Sat Mar 25, 2006 23:55

Diz, have you seen this (Final Fantasy 7: About Random Battles)? I HATE random battles and actually can't understand why they exist at all - like Maze levels - I simply can't see why developers think that they are fun in any way.
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Post by Dizi » Sun Mar 26, 2006 0:07

Ohh I hated the the maze in legend of Kyrandia, I still have the map I drew from when I first played it so that I don't have to go through that torture again. That little flash thing was about as annoyting as random battles, the mini game is good though :D Thanks for posting that, it brings back memories as ff7 is the only RPG that I have played without cheating.
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Post by Parvini » Sun Mar 26, 2006 0:15

Didn't you like it, Cloud? I'm sorry, Cloud... :D

Actually Dizi - I'm shocked to see you didn't show some anti-Maze support in this thread on OG from ages ago... It is notable to see the likes of Freakums and eMTe defending Maze levels to the hilt!!!

I note also that eMTe even goes as far as defending random battles in that thread!! LOL.

It was two years ago but I wonder what Mr. Supermod has to say for himself... he never responded to my response!
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Post by SGSW » Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:42

Usually in a game I loike more to see the story than to "defeat it" so I usue walkthroughs (and sometimes strategy guides) several times and I don't regret it (as for football games, I like to play them to see my club winning, so I don't feel not even slightly ashamed to win)

As for RPGs with random battles or random encounters it's easy to undertannd why they exist, in nearly all CRPG games you win XP after every battle, so they are a very big part in levelling up and therefore a necessary evil, so if the battle system is good I take them as challenge (unless sometimes in Fallout when they're overpowering and I retreat)

But for me playing games is entertainment and getting completely stucked is not fun, so for me cheating is one of many ways to achieve a goal
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Post by Ancsur2002 » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:22

Chillum wrote:I have been playing Diablo 2 LOD online for many years, and ever since I started I have used a program called Map Hack.. Its simply a program that gives you the full map.. Battle.net considers that cheating, but I don't.. I think it's a very soft kind of cheating, and I think that it spoils the fun NOT using maphack, and I am sure that most D2 players will agree with me!
Yeah, but now they disable the cd keys of those who use MH...
It helped finding stronger enemies and made the game faster, so I liked it, but I don't want to risk losing my CDkey. :(
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Post by FogToo » Sun Mar 26, 2006 19:26

Multiplayergames is a strict NO CHEATING what so ever.. It can be so harmless. Perhaps, but it gives an unfair advantage in some way.. If it didn't why bother use it ? ;)
offline gaming, I can't see any problem in cheating. It is you who play. Do what you find the most amusing :)
I never cheat in a game, I have yet to defeat :) with one exception.. Last mission in Warcraft TFT.. I have never been able to defeat that mission :| But I wanted to view the aftermath movie :)
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Post by eMTe » Mon Mar 27, 2006 22:33

Gamer who finishes the game with cheats or walktrough can be compared with sportsman stuffed with steroids who beats world record. Yeah, I'm the purist.

Two important facts from my gaming history. I'm stuck in Gabriel Knight 1 for three years now, but I promised myself that I'll never use walkthrough in this one of my fav games of all time. Why? Because I used it playing Indy IV a bit earlier. I was walking around the same screens for several days and finally I decided to cheat. When I saw how easy the solution was I was so angry that I stopped playing for several months. Being stuck in GK also takes all the fun from playing, but being a quite experienced gamer now I know that checking the game for the 100th time after some years is often worth a try - countless times Ive finished games playing them from the beginning or from the stuck point after a year or longer break. If I had to compare which of these two facts is more depreciating for me as a gamer Id choose using walkthrough, without any doubt.

Of course sometimes game is so stupid that using walktrough is no shame. Example? Ween: The Prophecy. Puzzles are so illogical that beating this game without trial-and-error method is totally impossible. I give a small tolerance for cheating in such games, cause if the game is not fun itself cheating cant kill this fun.

As for random battles and mazes, I'll check my old og post and write sth in the free time. 8)
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Post by oscarcg » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:04

And that's why I don't play adventure games at all. Tons of those just bring you stupid created puzzles that actually stuck you (I bet some mean code maker had his/her piece of fun with that). And sometimes the RPGs too (remember TES 2: Daggerfall).

I keep myself a purist too. Those from the OG must have read long ago my opinions on that. Still, for this discussion, I would like to offer the one cheat I have no fear to use, because I truly believe it's STUPID in the game designers minds not to think about this:

How the hell is that than an advanced race lands in a planet, and NEVER have a map of where they are???? :S Please, come on!!! Unles they really believe the old "macho" idea of never taking the road map to a trip and never ask for road instructions, it's illogical, doesn't make sense, and to say it once again, it's completely STUPID to think that in their way down to the planet, they didn't take a picture of the region they were about to land. Please, someone give me a break.


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Post by Pitkin » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:07

Of course it's not alright to cheat when playing a game. Cheating can ruin the game completely and totally if one gets used to getting everything without even trying first. I remember how much I enjoyed playing Europa Universalis 2 by myself and managed to build an actually working country every nth time I tried... then I just once wanted to feel the power of controlling the whole world... after trying out the cheat codes once, it never felt the same anymore and the game got ditched shortly afterwards. v_v

I admit, I try out some cheat codes in many games eventually. The worse the game feels, the lower the threshold to start 'assisting' myself completing it. Cheating to me is somehow a sign of the game already dying in my hands, and it's just the final blow for the poor thing that finishes everything.

How the blaze every time I try writing somewhere else than in the bar or such, I get the feeling the post looks completely messy, illogical and stupid? -_-x

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Post by Railwaymodeler » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:42

I don't cheat in games anymore, though as an impatient kid (with a sloooow Mac LCII with a 16MHz CPU) I would just to get things moving along a little faster.

These days, the closest thing to game cheating is the TTDpatch in Transport Tycoon. Now tell me, Parvini, in particular, do you consider this fine tool for Transport Tycoon Deluxe to be a cheat? To be sure it has a sign cheat function in it, but for all the enhancements it gives to the game, is it really just a big cheat?
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Post by Heimnar » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:23

I voted 'no' since in common sense I don't cheat - I don't use any secret codes etc. since it absolutely destroys all fun.
But - anyway - in my oppinion I am a cheater, since I save games not only at times when I must go away from the computer. But just to keep my character from dying too fast.

This is cheating to some extent.
Remember the games on old 8-bit machines? Where you couldn't save a game at all, or only in a given moment (a sort of a save-point)? This was a real challenge. These games were usually difficult as hell, and interesting to the same degree. I remember that once a company proposed a prize for finishing a game called Gyron (ZX-Spectrum). And it was not a small one - a new Porsche. No one has won as I know.

Speaking of another aspect - walkthrough and solutions. I use them only when I play the game for the second (or in some cases 3rd, 4th, 5th time) and when I want to know all the secrets, all the quests etc.
Yet, there are still games, that are so interesting that I obsessively try to go through without any external help. To the point when I try to make my own walkthrough. For me - this is where the real fun is. But - it happens only in the case of really interesting games. Like Might&Magic series for example. Even if I knew that there must be some guide to that game on the net - I have drawn all the maps by myself, desribed where who is, where to buy stuff and spells, where to get the quest, what to do etc.
I also did that in a mod to DOOM. The .wad file was called ETERNALL (in my oppinion - the best mod for original DOOM ever made). I still have somewhere a list of all secrets that can be found there (hundreds of them). For me - this is where real fun comes from.
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Post by Prideth » Wed Apr 05, 2006 0:40

In my opinion there are two kinds of cheats. Those who cheat in online games are just plain reprehensible because their actions directly affect other players, but those who cheat in offline games, who cares.

Seriously, who the heck is going to know or care if someone cheats in a game they play by themselves offline, except for the player themselves, and their own conscience will tell them if they should do it or not.

A good example with me is The Sims. I bought this game, installed it and had a good go at playing it, but the money, or lack thereof, really annoyed me and almost made me put the thing back in the drawer and forget about it. A money cheat I found on the net renewed my interest in this game, and I had a lot of fun using it to try various things out. I had ten times more fun playing this game with the cheat than without it, and that is really what should govern if people use them or not. Games are supposed to be enjoyed, not an excercise akin to having a tooth pulled without anesthetic.
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Post by Pitkin » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:18

Prideth wrote:In my opinion there are two kinds of cheats. Those who cheat in online games are just plain reprehensible because their actions directly affect other players, but those who cheat in offline games, who cares.
I cannot disagree on this point. I personally think that the moment cheating affects others' experience of the game, it's definitely not acceptable nor should it be tolerated. As long as there are no completely separated 'rooms' for those who play with what they've got and those who play with what the cheats've got, there's no room for cheating at all.
Prideth wrote:Seriously, who the heck is going to know or care if someone cheats in a game they play by themselves offline, except for the player themselves, and their own conscience will tell them if they should do it or not.
This, on the other hand I feel like I need to comment on. I don't (again, personally) consider cheating in a computer game any kind of question of conscience or morals. No one will ever know me cheating, I won't lose my nightsleep for it (*), no one gets hurt. The reason why I condemned cheating in my first post is purely the negative effect it usually brings to the personal gaming experience of mine; naturally, following the same logic (**), if cheating is a way to improve one's personal gaming experience, then it should be shown green light. Freely quoting Prideth-san on games' idea: the games are meant to be a nice way to spend time, not to waste one's life cursing on.

Still, I refuse to back off: to me, cheating eventually destroys the whole incentive to play the game again, so it's a no-no. Now I'll just have to start abiding that 'no-no' rule instead of destroying all the games one by one.


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Post by Parvini » Wed Apr 05, 2006 13:27

Pitkin wrote:Cheating can ruin the game completely and totally if one gets used to getting everything without even trying first. I remember how much I enjoyed playing Europa Universalis 2 by myself and managed to build an actually working country every nth time I tried... then I just once wanted to feel the power of controlling the whole world... after trying out the cheat codes once, it never felt the same anymore and the game got ditched shortly afterwards. v_v
This was exactly my point - it ruins the experience - not only does it make it not fun any more but actually dispells the "illusion" of the game. I am a bit of a role-player when I play games... you might think me sad here, but when I'm playing something like Medieval: Total War or the aforementioned Europa Universalis - I actually put myself in the role of king, or emperor, or whatever it is that the game simulates. Just as in Baldur's Gate I took on the role of mage (or whatever) and again in Sacrifice, in Deux EX I became JC Denton, in Super Punch Out the role of an up and coming boxer, in Football Manager the role of an actual manager... for me this is how games come alive, how they breathe - how they are transformed from a mere past-time to an actual EXPERIENCE, something different from my every day life, something I couldn't possibly experience in that.... when you put in a cheat, not only does it destroy the challenge but it exposes the working mechanics of the game, it shatters the suspension of disbelief and it makes the game seem like a program, something fake - it destroys the experience because suddenly you're not the King of Denmark, you're just you sitting infront of a PC tinkering with a program!

So cheating is a no-no for that reason.
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